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:::::It says at [[Help:Citation Style 1#Registration or subscription required]] that "[[:Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI]], is routinely cleared by [[User:Citation bot]]."  But it isn't getting cleared.   
:::::It says at [[Help:Citation Style 1#Registration or subscription required]] that "[[:Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI]], is routinely cleared by [[User:Citation bot]]."  But it isn't getting cleared.   
:::::I see @[[User:Hawkeye7|Hawkeye7]] just asked a related question here today. I guess the answer is sort of above - that the category exists so  [[User:Citation bot]] can do some kind of maintenance?  But I'm unable to grok how it would clear it from what's written about it, except in a vague sense.  Confusing. [[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 05:24, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::I see @[[User:Hawkeye7|Hawkeye7]] just asked a related question here today. I guess the answer is sort of above - that the category exists so  [[User:Citation bot]] can do some kind of maintenance?  But I'm unable to grok how it would clear it from what's written about it, except in a vague sense.  Confusing. [[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 05:24, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
==Wide-spread "no footnote" errors in articles that haven't changed==
Something has broken {{tl|National Heritage List for England}}. This affects thousands of references on more than 100 articles.
One example is [[Listed buildings in Bamford]]. Lots of "Listed Buildings in" articles use the template for its footnotes. There are other articles (like [[Burleigh Pottery]]) which aren't about listed buildings, but also have new problems.
The template works in two modes. One mode is fine, the other causes "sfnp error: no target errors where there were no problems before. Now, invocations like <code><nowiki>{{sfnp|Historic England|1087857|ps=none}}</nowiki></code> are not working anymore. That invocation says there's "no target: CITEREFHistoric_England1087857".
There used to be: it ''was'' generated by <code><nowiki>{{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2}}</nowiki></code>, but that doesn't work anymore.
I can't seem to narrow down what changed.  Any help? -- [[User:Mikeblas|mikeblas]] ([[User talk:Mikeblas|talk]]) 00:06, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Mikeblas|Mikeblas]]: What happens if you click on the link in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burleigh_Pottery#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHistoric_England1297939-4 footnote 4]? I don't see the error message on my device. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 00:32, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
::I see the error message.  You don't see it because you haven enabled their display in your common.css.  See {{cl|Harv_and_Sfn_template_errors#Displaying_error_messages|Category:Harv and Sfn template errors § Displaying error messages}}.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 01:14, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
:This is not new and it has nothing to do with Citation Style 1.  This is a classic case of a false positive result from [[Module:Footnotes]] which emits that message when it cannot find a match.  It cannot find a match because Module:Footnotes reads the article wikitext looking for anything that can be made into a <code>CITEREF</code> anchor/link.  Usually in cs1|2 citation templates the necessary information is author surnames (up to four) and the year portion of the source's date.  In your {{tlx|NHLE}} example, neither of those are present in the wikitext so Module:Footnotes emits the error message.  The {{tlx|sfnp}} template still links to the target. 
:
:Here is an example (using {{tlx|harvnb}} for simplicity:
:*<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{harvnb|Historic England|1087857|ps=none}}</syntaxhighlight> → {{harvnb|Historic England|1087857|ps=none}}
:*<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2}}</syntaxhighlight>
:*:{{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2}}
:If you click that short-form link, your browser should jump you to the {{tld|NHLE}} rendering.
:
:Inside {{tld|NHLE}}, there is code that sets the {{para|ref}} parameter of the underlying {{tlx|cite web}} template to {{tlx|SfnRef|Historic England|<nowiki>{{{num}}}</nowiki>}} where <code><nowiki>{{{num}}}</nowiki></code> in this example is <code>1087857</code>.  That is not visible to Module:Footnotes.  Despite the error message, the link from the short-form reference to the long-form reference works.  Click it an see.
:
:But, this particular use of {{tld|harvnb|Historic England|<nowiki>{{{num}}}</nowiki>}} creates a malformed rendering; that template should not be rendering an ampersand.  Pretty sure I've seen this particular issue discussed elsewhere.  You can get around these issues by writing:
:*<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{harvnb|''Historic England'' 1087857|ps=none}}</syntaxhighlight> → {{harvnb|''Historic England'' 1087857|ps=none}}
:*<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2|ref={{sfnref|Historic England 1087857}}}}</syntaxhighlight>
:*:{{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2|ref={{sfnref|Historic England 1087857}}}}
:This works because Module:Footnotes can see the <syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">|ref={{sfnref|Historic England 1087857}}</syntaxhighlight> in the template wikitext and can see that it matches the {{tld|harvnb}} output.
:
:More detail and perhaps a better explanation of the false positive error messages can be found at {{cl|Harv and Sfn template errors}}.  This is not a new error and it is not caused by the module suite that underlies cs1|2 templates.
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 01:14, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
::The template is whitelisted in patterns section of [[Module:Footnotes/whitelist]], so these error shouldnt be happening. -- <small>LCU</small> '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small>]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]» °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°''</small> 01:57, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
::There also [[Cleveland Point Light]] that has false positive no target errors for CITEREFLighthouses_of_Australia_Inc, which has also been whitelisted in [[Module:Footnotes/whitelist]]. Could this be a [[WP:THURSDAY]] thing? -- <small>LCU</small> '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small>]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]» °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°''</small> 02:07, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I've raised the issue at {{slink|Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)|anchor_encoding_changed?}}
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:24, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
::But that's just not true: it's ''certainly'' new. These citations were not flagged just a few days ago. -- [[User:Mikeblas|mikeblas]] ([[User talk:Mikeblas|talk]]) 15:20, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
::This issue looks like it's been fixed[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#c-SBassett_(WMF)-20251030213000-ActivelyDisinterested-20251025202200], purging an effected article may be required. -- <small>LCU</small> '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small>]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]» °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°''</small> 21:48, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
==Citing multiple chapters with different authors from a book==
Could've sworn there was a way to do the following, but I can't find it now:
Editor last, first (date) ''Book title'' ....
{{nbsp}}{{nbsp}}{{nbsp}}{{nbsp}}Author last, first "chapter title" in editor last (date) ...
Thanks ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: #A81B00">buidhe</span>]]''' 15:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:{{tlx|harvc}}?
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:01, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::That's what I was looking for, thank you! ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: #A81B00">buidhe</span>]]''' 16:08, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
== Better handling of duplicate IDs in [[Template:Citation]] et al ==
Is there such a thing as a standard to create IDs for citations that dictates they must be in the format <code>CITEREFsurname1[...surnameN]YEAR</code> ? Because if there isn't, the template should simply use more data to ensure IDs aren't duplicate (say, add the initials of the title) rather than forcing editors to use 2008a, 2008b for the year to work around the template's limitations. [[User:Tactica|Tactica]] ([[User talk:Tactica|talk]]) 03:41, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Tactica|Tactica]]: But how would [[Module:Footnotes]] footnotes anticipate those? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:45, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
:Also, this is how [https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/citations/basic-principles/same-year-author APA] and other citation styles handle this issue. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 03:47, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
:You can always use the {{para|ref}} parameter in the cite with {{tl|sfnref}} to change the CITEREF to anything you want. -- <small>LCU</small> '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small>]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]» °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°''</small> 15:28, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support this. Currently there is no way in finding valid lint errors with duplicate IDs as the noise from this template hides them. [[Module:Footnotes]] should be modified to accept any change that is done here. What APA or other styles do is irrelevant. [[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 18:26, 3 November 2025 (UTC)


== Do not recommend use of invalid markup ==
== Do not recommend use of invalid markup ==
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:::So my Polya/Szego example will have the ISBN / date incompatibility message, and I should just let it stand.
:::So my Polya/Szego example will have the ISBN / date incompatibility message, and I should just let it stand.
:::Should every edition of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland have |orig-date=1865 ? No. Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice would have an |orig-date=1960. [[User:Turtlens|Turtlens]] ([[User talk:Turtlens|talk]]) 10:23, 11 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Should every edition of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland have |orig-date=1865 ? No. Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice would have an |orig-date=1960. [[User:Turtlens|Turtlens]] ([[User talk:Turtlens|talk]]) 10:23, 11 November 2025 (UTC)
== Why restrict usage of the volume and issue parameters? ==
What is the purpose of the following code snippets in [[Module:Citation/CS1]]?
<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
local Volume;
if 'citation' == config.CitationClass then
if utilities.is_set (Periodical) then
if not utilities.in_array (Periodical_origin, cfg.citation_no_volume_t) then -- {{citation}} does not render |volume= when these parameters are used
Volume = A['Volume']; -- but does for all other 'periodicals'
end
elseif utilities.is_set (ScriptPeriodical) then
if 'script-website' ~= ScriptPeriodical_origin then -- {{citation}} does not render volume for |script-website=
Volume = A['Volume']; -- but does for all other 'periodicals'
end
else
Volume = A['Volume']; -- and does for non-'periodical' cites
end
elseif utilities.in_array (config.CitationClass, cfg.templates_using_volume) then -- render |volume= for cs1 according to the configuration settings
Volume = A['Volume'];
end
</syntaxhighlight>
<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
local Issue;
if 'citation' == config.CitationClass then
if utilities.is_set (Periodical) and utilities.in_array (Periodical_origin, cfg.citation_issue_t) then -- {{citation}} may render |issue= when these parameters are used
Issue = utilities.hyphen_to_dash (A['Issue']);
end
elseif utilities.in_array (config.CitationClass, cfg.templates_using_issue) then -- conference & map books do not support issue; {{citation}} listed here because included in settings table
if not (utilities.in_array (config.CitationClass, {'conference', 'map', 'citation'}) and not (utilities.is_set (Periodical) or utilities.is_set (ScriptPeriodical))) then
Issue = utilities.hyphen_to_dash (A['Issue']);
end
end
</syntaxhighlight>
Why not just do {{code|1=local Volume = A['Volume'];}} and {{code|1=local Issue = A['Issue'];}} unconditionally?
{{ping|Trappist the monk}} It looks like you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox&diff=691674755&oldid=691668552 added the first checks here just about 10 years ago]. Why?
[[User:Sollyucko|Solomon Ucko]] ([[User talk:Sollyucko|talk]]) 02:27, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:Because, at [[Special:Permalink/693910252#.7Cvolume.3D.2C_.7Cissue.3D.2C_.7Cpage.28s.29.3D_and_cite_magazine|this discussion]], we determined that there are cs1 templates that do not need to support {{para|volume}} and/or {{para|issue}}.  The table in that discussion, in an evolved form, lives at {{slink|Help:Citation_Style_1|Pages}}.  The code snippets above limit the availability of {{para|volume}} and {{para|issue}} to {{tlx|citation}} because {{tld|citation}}, given the same parameters, is supposed to render more-or-less the same as the equivalent cs1 template; {{tlx|cite web}}, for example, does not support {{para|volume}} and {{para|issue}} so {{tld|citation}} using {{para|website}} does not support those parameters:
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{cite web |title=Title |url=https://example.com |website=Example |volume=1 |issue=2}}</syntaxhighlight>
:::{{cite web |title=Title |url=https://example.com |website=Example |volume=1 |issue=2}}
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{citation |title=Title |url=https://example.com |website=Example |volume=1 |issue=2}}</syntaxhighlight>
:::{{citation |title=Title |url=https://example.com |website=Example |volume=1 |issue=2}}
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:09, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::In that discussion, all I see is you repeatedly pushing to limit which templates render these parameters, and other users either commenting on adjacent topics, or suggesting additional template/parameter pairs to allow, but not specifically agreeing with such a limitation.
::You seem to be justifying it as a way to avoid mixing styles within a citation, but couldn't you solve that by just having consistent criteria between the parameters for when to use each style? (IMO, it should be 'journal citations get the minimalist style and everything else gets the labeled style'.)
::And if I'm trying to cite a source that defies your expectations, such as a multi-volume conference proceedings monograph, a report with an issue number (perhaps I should use the confusingly-documented <code>|series=</code> here, but an actual message suggesting this could be helpful), or a sign/similar with some kind of flaps/pages that can be flipped through, what am I expected to do?
::And how did you even decide which ones should allow them and which ones should silently ignore them? For example, what use are <code>|volume=</code> and <code>|issue=</code> with {{tl|cite interview}}, or <code>|volume=</code> with {{tl|cite thesis}}?
::Trying to pre-emptively guess what could be useful where just seems like a waste of everyone's time to me, when it would be trivial to just not bother distinguishing.
::I guess I can find workarounds as needed, but it's just a huge hassle that I find very frustrating...
::BTW, as to your question "Are we to render <code>|volume=</code>, <code>|issue=</code>, and <code>|page(s)=</code> all together as a group or allow the meta-parameters <code>Others</code>, <code>Edition</code>, <code>Publisher</code>, and <code>Agency</code> to separate <code>|issue=</code> from <code>|page(s)=</code>?": Minimalist-style citations end up being very confusing when the page number ends up after those parameters (except maybe Edition), so I would prefer that the formatting for them keep the volume, page, and issue together, perhaps like "''Journal'' (Edition ed.; Publisher-Location: Publisher) '''Volume''' (Issue): Pages. Agency. Others." For labeled-format citations, they're legible enough regardless of ordering, so I don't care too strongly what they use, but doing this kind of thing for them too is good with me.
::[[User:Sollyucko|Solomon Ucko]] ([[User talk:Sollyucko|talk]]) 19:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)


== Multiple URLs for cite newspaper? ==
== Multiple URLs for cite newspaper? ==
Line 283: Line 169:
:::cs1|2 maintains a list of doi prefixes that are known to be generally free-to-read – the prefix is the several digits between the <code>10.</code> and the <code>/</code>.  Alas, not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read.  For example <code>10.1155/S1073792801000046</code> has the prefix <code>1155</code> which is generally free-to-read but, in this case is not.
:::cs1|2 maintains a list of doi prefixes that are known to be generally free-to-read – the prefix is the several digits between the <code>10.</code> and the <code>/</code>.  Alas, not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read.  For example <code>10.1155/S1073792801000046</code> has the prefix <code>1155</code> which is generally free-to-read but, in this case is not.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 18:31, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 18:31, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
::::"not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read". It fairly often happens when clicking a "doi-access=free" link that the related web page displays possibly an abstract, and possibly allows downloading something that isn't the paper referenced. Presumably an error by an editor, unless the parameter is inserted via the list of prefixes. [[User:Pol098|Pol098]] ([[User talk:Pol098|talk]]) 16:35, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
::::"not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read". It fairly often happens when clicking a "doi-access=free" link that the related web page displays possibly an abstract, and possibly allows downloading something that isn't the paper referenced. Presumably an error by an editor, unless the parameter is inserted via the list of prefixes. [[User:Pol098|Pol098]] ([[User talk:Pol098|talk]]) 16:35, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Re {{xt|Alas, not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read}}. This affects one journal prior to 2007, ''[[International Mathematics Research Notices]]'', as detailed in [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 94#Unflagged free DOI, add a time component to some DOIs]]. It's a longstanding issue, detailed in [[:Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI]], an affects 35 articles, and I would ''love'' for ISSN prefixes prior to 2007, or at least to IMRN, to be ignored by the template. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 03:55, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Re {{xt|Alas, not all dois believed to be free-to-read are actually free-to-read}}. This affects one journal prior to 2007, ''[[International Mathematics Research Notices]]'', as detailed in [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 94#Unflagged free DOI, add a time component to some DOIs]]. It's a longstanding issue, detailed in [[:Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI]], an affects 35 articles, and I would ''love'' for ISSN prefixes prior to 2007, or at least to IMRN, to be ignored by the template. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 03:55, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::Are these 35 of the (at the moment) 40 articles in the category?  [[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 12:06, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Annoyingly, doi-access= doesn't support limited or subscription. Bug, I think. When I try it, I get "Invalid <code>|doi-access=subscription</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#invalid param val|help]]), but the help is not helpful.  I see that free is the only allowed setting for doi-access, but '''why is that'''? It seems to be in direct conflict with [[WP:CS1]], which states, <q>As a courtesy to readers and other editors, editors should signal restrictions on access to material provided via the external links included in a citation.</q> And I agree with that statement/policy. But I'm being blocked from doing so. WT?
::::Also, it says at [[Help:Citation Style 1#Registration or subscription required]] that "[[:Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI]], is routinely cleared by [[User:Citation bot]]." But it isn't getting cleared.
::::It's stated that the category exists so [[User:Citation bot]] can do some kind of maintenance... But I'm unable to grok how it would clear it from what's written about it, except in a vague sense.  What should/does the bot currently do with the category, if anything?
::::[[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 06:38, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Also, the bot (or triggering it) seems broken. https://citations.toolforge.org/category.php?edit=toolbar&slow=1&cat=CS1+maint%3A+unflagged+free+DOI doesn't load. [[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 12:18, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::::I support amending the access level parameters for identifiers to allow the keywords {{pval|registration}}, {{pval|limited}} and {{pval|subscription}} to be set too, not just {{pval|free}}. I believe it is natural for identifiers specified in {{para|doi}} etc. to make no assumptions about access levels by default, unless they are known to be (or not to be) free to read. [[User:本日晴天|本日晴天]] ([[User talk:本日晴天|talk]]) 05:24, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{tl|helpme}} Could use some more attention here from folks knowledgable about CS1.  E.g. with questions asked and help allowing |doi= to work with the usual keywords for indicating paywall issues do [not] exist.  I presume removing the block on these keywords should be easy for someone who groks CS1 internals. [[User:RememberOrwell|RememberOrwell]] ([[User talk:RememberOrwell|talk]]) 06:54, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::Please don't use {{tl|helpme}} in the midst of an ongoing discussion. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 17:01, 25 November 2025 (UTC)


== Clarify wording of descriptor of an example ==
== Clarify wording of descriptor of an example ==
Line 294: Line 188:
{{xt|Complex usage showing display of volume and name-list-style  (without using volume or  name-list-style parameters}}
{{xt|Complex usage showing display of volume and name-list-style  (without using volume or  name-list-style parameters}}
Because I could not understand the original wording (top) at all (it is not "using" a "volume parameter").  If this was not an improvement, feel free to revert (or replace with another wording, since the original is - to me - nonsense). [[User:Noleander|Noleander]] ([[User talk:Noleander|talk]]) 14:46, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
Because I could not understand the original wording (top) at all (it is not "using" a "volume parameter").  If this was not an improvement, feel free to revert (or replace with another wording, since the original is - to me - nonsense). [[User:Noleander|Noleander]] ([[User talk:Noleander|talk]]) 14:46, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
== Treat translator without author like editor ==
Sometimes a work will have a translator without an author.
''My Childhood on Kashyyyk''. Translated by Threepio, C. Cloud City: Calrissian House. 1977.
Instead, I think something like how we treat editors (at least for works without an author or editor) would make more sense.
Threepio, C. (trans). (1977) ''My Childhood on Kashyyyk''. Cloud City: Calrissian House.
Organa, Leia (ed.). (1977) ''My Childhood on Kashyyyk''. Translated by Threepio, C. Cloud City: Calrissian House.
Chewbacca (1977). Organa, Leia (ed.). ''My Childhood on Kashyyyk''. Translated by Threepio, C. Cloud City: Calrissian House.
[[User:Snowman304|'''Snowman304''']]'''&#124;'''[[User talk:Snowman304|'''talk''']] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
:It is always useful to provide a real-world example from a real article rather than a hypothetical one. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:19, 18 November 2025 (UTC)
::Hi Jonesey! Sure, sorry about that. This came up when looking at [[Kenshō]].
::* <nowiki>{{Citation | translator-last =Bikkhu | translator-first =Thannssaro | year =1999 | title =Sakka-pañha Sutta: Sakka's Questions (excerpt) (DN 21) | url =https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.21.2x.than.html }}</nowiki>
::gives us
::* {{Citation | translator-last =Bikkhu | translator-first =Thannssaro | year =1999 | title =Sakka-pañha Sutta: Sakka's Questions (excerpt) (DN 21) | url =https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.21.2x.than.html }}
::A fuller citation would be
::* {{Citation |translator-last=Bikkhu |translator-first=Thannssaro |orig-year=1999 |title=Sakka-pañha Sutta: Sakka's Questions (excerpt) (DN 21) |url=https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.21.2x.than.html |website=Access to Insight |publisher=Barre Center for Buddhist Studies |date=30 November 2013}}
::from
::* <nowiki>{{Citation |translator-last=Bikkhu |translator-first=Thannssaro |orig-year=1999 |title=Sakka-pañha Sutta: Sakka's Questions (excerpt) (DN 21) |url=https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.21.2x.than.html |website=Access to Insight |publisher=Barre Center for Buddhist Studies |date=30 November 2013}}</nowiki>
::I'm proposing something more like
::*  Bikkhu, Thannssaro, trans. (30 November 2013) [1999], "Sakka-pañha Sutta: Sakka's Questions (excerpt) (DN 21)", ''Access to Insight'', Barre Center for Buddhist Studies
::[[User:Snowman304|'''Snowman304''']]'''&#124;'''[[User talk:Snowman304|'''talk''']] 00:36, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
:::The ''Chicago Manual of Style'' ([https://library.ship.edu/c.php?g=21703&p=127123 section 14.103]; I have the 17th edition in hardcover and it agrees with this web site) agrees with you. I'll leave the programming up to someone else. I know better than to mess with these modules. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
== No last name for cite book ==
I have a citation where only the first name of the authors of a book chapter/section are given, but when I put the first names in it throws an error and does not show the authors of the section in the citation. Am I doing something wrong? [[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] ([[User talk:Katzrockso|talk]]) 01:58, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] There is the parameter {{para|author}} for situations where the author has a single name, has an unclear first/last name because of the culture, or is a body of multiple authors under a single (usually organizational) name. [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 02:14, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Rjjiii|Rjjiii]] Thanks, in this case there are 2 authors that are listed only by their first names [[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] ([[User talk:Katzrockso|talk]]) 02:15, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Would I do something like author=<first name1> and <first name2>
:::In this case the names are Gülkan and Aligül. Or perhaps an &? I actually know the surname of one of the authors, but I don't believe it's mentioned anywhere in the text, so that's another question. [[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] ([[User talk:Katzrockso|talk]]) 02:19, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::::;<syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext>{{cite book |author1=Gülkan |author2=Aligül |title=Whatever the Title Happens to Be |date= |location= |publisher= |page= |isbn= }}</syntaxhighlight>
:::::{{cite book |author1=Gülkan |author2=Aligül |title=Whatever the Title Happens to Be |date= |location= |publisher= |page= |isbn= }}
::::[[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 02:37, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Also, not the point, but what publisher uses first names, only? [[User:Rjjiii|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span>]] ([[User talk:Rjjiii|talk]]) 02:38, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::It's from a roundtable @[[User:Rjjiii|Rjjiii]], published in book format. The participants were only identified by their first names. [[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] ([[User talk:Katzrockso|talk]]) 03:45, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
== DOI value ==
Hi there!  [[Oxford Street, Osu]] has a "check doi value", but the doi value seems to be OK.
*{{cite journal |last1=Sowah |first1=Mohammed Adjei |title=Transforming Osu Oxford Street into a pedestrian-friendly mixed-use suburb: an urban planning and design approach |journal=LSE International Development Review |date=2025-06-09 |volume=4 |issue=1 |pages=195–209 |doi=10.82191/lseidr.111}}
Could you please check this?  Thanks! [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 01:47, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
:Fixed in the sandbox:
::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline="1">{{cite journal/new |last1=Sowah |first1=Mohammed Adjei |title=Transforming Osu Oxford Street into a pedestrian-friendly mixed-use suburb: an urban planning and design approach |journal=LSE International Development Review |date=2025-06-09 |volume=4 |issue=1 |pages=195–209 |doi=10.82191/lseidr.111 |doi-access=free}}</syntaxhighlight>
:::{{cite journal/new |last1=Sowah |first1=Mohammed Adjei |title=Transforming Osu Oxford Street into a pedestrian-friendly mixed-use suburb: an urban planning and design approach |journal=LSE International Development Review |date=2025-06-09 |volume=4 |issue=1 |pages=195–209 |doi=10.82191/lseidr.111 |doi-access=free}}
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:02, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
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