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==CSS instead of tables==
{{moved discussion from|Template talk:Ambox#CSS instead of tables|[[User:Sapphaline|Sapphaline]] ([[User talk:Sapphaline|talk]]) 10:25, 20 August 2025 (UTC)}}
Could this thing use <code><nowiki><div style="display:table;"></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki><div style="display:table-cell;"></nowiki></code> instead of literal tables and table cells (<code><nowiki><table></nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki><td></nowiki></code>)?

Were the any previous attempts to remake this using <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>? If so, what was the consensus? [[User:Sapphaline|Sapphaline]] ([[User talk:Sapphaline|talk]]) 09:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:A long time ago this would have been converted to divs but apparently IE sucked (this should not be news).
:Today, I have [[User:Izno/Sandbox/Ambox]] with what are some skimmings and started a sandbox at [[Module:Message box/div]]. I have just done a very bad job of finishing this work. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::Which might be closer to done than not, honestly. I think what it currently needs is to
::# Double check the ambox work
::# Add "soft" support for the other kinds of boxes (where soft is defined as module-supports but config disabled)
::# Merge tested /div version but not CSS into main
::# Enable boxes of each kind one by one.
::#* Leave ambox for penultimate as the most likely to cause some mass noise in a way
::#* Probably somewhere around here do ombox, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2FMessage%5B%20_%5Dbox%5C%2Fombox%5C.css%2F%20-intitle%3A%2F(%5BSs%5Dandbox%7C%5C%2Fdoc)%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns10=1&ns828=1 that has some needed coordination]
::#* Leave tmbox for ultimate, there is work to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2FMessage%5B%20_%5Dbox%5C%2Ftmbox%5C.css%2F%20-intitle%3A%2F(%5BSs%5Dandbox%7C%5C%2Fdoc)%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns10=1&ns828=1 coordinate]
::# Fix bugs that are identified
::# Move CSS over to better-named stylesheet
::# Delete the /div CSS (I won't be too sad)
::# Remove main support for table versions, possibly rename some things
::[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:42, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::I have now put this plan in a publicly editable place at [[Module:Message box/div/doc]]. [[User:Izno|Izno]][[User:IznoPublic|Public]] ([[User talk:Izno#top|talk]]) 00:26, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
::Hi! I didn't know you were doing this, so I made something similar. It seems to work:
::* Module: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AMessage_box%2Fsandbox&diff=1310791170&oldid=1300331049]
::* Styles: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AMessage_box%2Fsandbox%2Fambox.css&diff=1310791252&oldid=1305438959]
:: [[User:Iniquity|Iniquity]] ([[User talk:Iniquity|talk]]) 16:57, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
:::Yes, I did it in its own sandbox because it's a longterm enough project not to be done in the main sandbox, which should generally be releasable ad hoc for trivial issues. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:03, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
:::And also, there are enough other dependencies that "just change the two or three places" isn't going to fly. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:06, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
::::Where else do you think this will affect? It seems that only the mobile version is oriented towards <syntaxhighlight inline lang="css">table.ambox</syntaxhighlight>, which can also be corrected by CSS [[User:Iniquity|Iniquity]] ([[User talk:Iniquity|talk]]) 17:09, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::I have already documented in [[Module:Message box/div/doc]] multiple places that will need careful work, ambox among them. Please feel free to peruse and ask questions about what's there and why. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:41, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thanks! [[User:Iniquity|Iniquity]] ([[User talk:Iniquity|talk]]) 17:47, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
:What's broken here? I've probably wrong but AFAIK for accessibility the existing role="presentation" should suffice. [[User:Aaron Liu|Aaron Liu]] ([[User talk:Aaron Liu#top|talk]]) 23:21, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
::You should always endeavor to use the default aria role element. In this case, that's not a table. Ignoring that, tables are shit for doing other presentation with. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 03:20, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
:::This /div work is great work, thanks for this [[User:Waddie96|waddie96]] ★ ([[User talk:Waddie96|talk]]) 19:49, 8 September 2025 (UTC)
:Ok, I think we can do {{tl|cmbox}} now. Based on what I wrote down before, the process of a rollout is:
:# Alert some key pages. Has to include some verbiage like <blockquote>A change is occurring to how {{tl|cmbox}} is implemented to support mobile resolutions better. It may cause some temporary display weirdness. Further information is available at [[Module talk:Message box#cmbox migration]].</blockquote> with some text at the specific section <blockquote>A change is planned to occur in how {{tl|cmbox}} is implemented. It should help improve display at mobile resolutions now, and accessibility later. cmbox was chosen because it has lower reader-facing impact than most other message box types and it's fairly self-contained. The change to cmbox will likely pave the way for other message boxes ({{tl|fmbox}} is probably next).You can expect some difference in styling from previous for a small period due to the [[WP:Job queue|job queue]], after which it should return to "normal". You should be able to correct it manually if you want with one of the usual steps ([[WP:PURGE|purge]], [[WP:NULL|null edit]], or [[Help:Dummy edit|dummy edit]]). If an issue with display persists, leave a comment here (this scenario may be possible with some unexpected setup cmboxes).</blockquote>
:#* Here (here, here is the warning)
:#* [[WP:VPT]]
:#* [[MediaWiki talk:Common.css]]
:#* Maybe [[WT:CAT]] and [[WT:CFD]]
:# Sync [[Module:Message box/sandbox]] to [[Module:Message box]] (first time only)
:# Within quick succession to next step, sync [[Module:Message box/configuration/sandbox]] to [[Module:Message box/configuration]]
:# Within quick succession to previous step, sync [[Module:Message box/div/cmbox.css]] to [[Module:Message box/cmbox.css]]
:[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:08, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
:: The /div main and config modules have got some other adjustments that now make it different from what will end up going live, so they shouldn't generally be synced directly. For future me. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:59, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::Also messages now posted to VPT and Common.css. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:00, 1 October 2025 (UTC)
::cmbox is deployed. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 20:30, 2 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Ok, cmbox has been basically quiet besides notes from the below. I will now work on fmbox, which should also be relatively low impact. I'm also starting to sketch out imbox which may need to interact with template content from Commons as well as [[:c:MediaWiki:Filepage.css]]. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 20:44, 7 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Turns out I don't currently have to worry about commons names, which is something I should have noted when I split message box CSS during the TemplateStylization. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:03, 17 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::What does {{tq|split message box CSS during the TemplateStylization}} mean exactly?
:::::Also, what can I help with. [[User:Waddie96|waddie96]] ★ ([[User talk:Waddie96|talk]]) 03:56, 17 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::All of the CSS for the message boxes was once in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. I moved it to TemplateStyles with some effort because of [[MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#description|reasons]].
::::::This effort now that I've got my feet under me probably doesn't need much assistance. If you want to spend time on something, working on the problems listed at [[MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#Infobox]] would be excellent. If you want to spend some time on stuff, crafting an infobox (using Lua or template) to fix our ''career statistics'' pages would be super helpful. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:27, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

== cmbox migration ==
A change is planned to occur sometime starting in the next day or two in how {{tl|cmbox}} is implemented. It should help improve display at mobile resolutions now, and accessibility later. cmbox was chosen because it has lower reader-facing impact than most other message box types and it's fairly self-contained. The change to cmbox will likely pave the way for other message boxes ({{tl|fmbox}} or {{tl|imbox}} is probably next). (There is some other planning information in [[#CSS instead of tables]].)

You can expect some difference in styling from previous for a small period due to the [[WP:Job queue|job queue]], after which it should return to "normal". You should be able to correct it manually if you want with one of the usual steps ([[WP:PURGE|purge]], [[WP:NULL|null edit]], or [[Help:Dummy edit|dummy edit]]). If an issue with display persists, leave a comment here (this scenario may be possible with some unexpected setup cmboxes). [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:22, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

:Ok, this is now deployed. I await the lions and bears (oh my!). [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 20:30, 2 October 2025 (UTC)
::I think this is not working too well with minerva's JavaScript.
::On[[Trolleybuses in Tours|https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Tours#Lines]] for example learn more link appears before rather than after the text (and is kind of useless since it just repeats the expanded text).
::Page issues on mobile expect a certain markup outlined on [[mw:Recommendations_for_mobile_friendly_articles_on_Wikimedia_wikis|Mw.org]]. Hopefully an easy fix? 🐸 [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:31, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] {{tl|cmbox}} is not (supposed to be) used in mainspace (the c stands for category). If there are issues, they are pre-existing there. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:51, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Ok, this was a mis-translation use of {{tl|images}} from French Wikipedia which is apparently something closer to {{tl|multiple images}} there. IDK how you stumbled onto this use. It's the only use of cmbox in mainspace. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:58, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for looking! I just looked at WhatLinksHere and picked the top article. I didn't realize it was the only one! I must confess I didn't look closely at your changes to determine if it was preexisting. 🐸 [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 00:56, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::: {{ec}} The change made here is bringing it ''more'' into compliance with your [[mw:Recommendations for mobile friendly articles on Wikimedia wikis#Avoid tables for anything except data]]. 🙄 [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 21:52, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:::And as for certain markup, {{tl|ambox}} which is supposed to be used in articles already has one task upstream about it. I suppose I'm glad you ran into this because it mostly firms up my feeling that what MF/Minerva/WikimediaMessages does with what it does desperately needs an overhaul even above the task or two out there. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:52, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
::::And specifically I had noted this issue with ambox though I hadn't yet written it down as being an issue. I'll go do at least that much. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:13, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Now at [[Module:Message box/div/doc#Written]]. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:18, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
:I assume "is planned" here means "is planned by you, Izno, who individually decided to fix it" — or is this orchestrated by the ægis of some larger and grander edifice? [[User:JPxG|jp]]×[[Special:Contribs/JPxG|g]][[User talk:JPxG|🗯️]] 11:08, 13 October 2025 (UTC)
::If the former, then thanks: somebody's gotta do it. [[User:JPxG|jp]]×[[Special:Contribs/JPxG|g]][[User talk:JPxG|🗯️]] 11:09, 13 October 2025 (UTC)
:::The former. And it's already happened. I was going to do fmbox/imbox at the end of the last week but then time got away from me. Then I took a couple days away. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 16:45, 13 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Your nation thanks you for your service. {{emojus|salute}} [[User:JPxG|jp]]×[[Special:Contribs/JPxG|g]][[User talk:JPxG|🗯️]] 00:56, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
:The div version has 4 pixels shorter height than the table version. For example, [[Template:Maintenance category]] is 57.8 px high using table, but 53.8 px using div. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 22:55, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, I noticed that too shortly after merging it, it's on account of browser default CSS being <code>table { border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 2px }</code>. I came to the conclusion that there's no real reason to be pixel-perfect here—the only reasonable way to emulate it is to add additional padding, which is probably a few more lines of CSS. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 23:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, it's not a few more lines, it's a gentle adjustment to what we have (bumping our mbox-image/text paddings by about 0.1em), but we probably still won't end up pixel perfect as that would require the use of <code>calc()</code> to add em widths and px widths. I have no great qualms adjusting the current CSS to support that if someone else thinks we should. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:34, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Ok I did it anyway. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:02, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

== fmbox migration ==
A change is occurring in how {{tl|fmbox}} is implemented. It should help improve display at mobile resolutions now, and accessibility later. fmbox was chosen because it has lower reader-facing impact than most other message box types and it's fairly self-contained. (There is some other planning information in [[#CSS instead of tables]].) (Previously, [[#cmbox migration|cmbox was done]].)

You can expect some difference in styling from previous for a small period due to the [[WP:Job queue|job queue]], after which it should return to "normal". You should be able to correct it manually if you want with one of the usual steps ([[WP:PURGE|purge]], [[WP:NULL|null edit]], or [[Help:Dummy edit|dummy edit]]). If an issue with display persists, leave a comment here (this scenario may be possible with some unexpected setup fmboxes). [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:19, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

== Warnings for wrong mainspace use or something ==

Given [[Module_talk:Message_box#c-Izno-20251003215100-Jdlrobson-20251003213100|this comment]], I'm entertaining adding a configured warning which would display (and category with it) when a message box is in the mainspace and it shouldn't be. There are some recent changes that I'm going to have to chase down and/or revert to support that. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:12, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

== imbox migration ==

A change is occurring in how {{tl|imbox}} is implemented. It should help improve display at mobile resolutions now, and accessibility later. imbox was chosen third because it has lower reader-facing impact than most other message box types and it's fairly self-contained. (There is some other planning information in [[#CSS instead of tables]].) (Previously, [[#cmbox migration|cmbox]] and [[#fmbox migration|fmbox]] were done.)

You can expect some difference in styling from previous for a small period due to the [[WP:Job queue|job queue]], after which it should return to "normal". You should be able to correct it manually if you want with one of the usual steps ([[WP:PURGE|purge]], [[WP:NULL|null edit]], or [[Help:Dummy edit|dummy edit]]). If an issue with display persists, leave a comment here (this scenario may be possible with some unexpected setup imboxes). This may also, but should not have, affected the already-migrated cmbox and fmbox, so if those also appear to have an issue, here is a good spot now. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 18:34, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Module talk:Message box - Revision history

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w>Lowercase sigmabot III: Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Module talk:Message box/Archive 2) (bot