View source for Template talk:VTE

{{tfd end|date=2014 July 27|merge=Template:Navbar|result=no consensus}}
{{tfd end|date=2017 March 5|merge=Template:Navbar|more_merge= and [[Template:View]]|result=merge, assuming there are no technical problems}}
==Edit linked as external==
Any way we could incorporate the features of [[Template:Ed2]] so that the "e" link is a simple blue link like the "v" and "d" links? Similar to the style of [[Template:Navbox]] really. Having the edit link appear as an external one is pretty confusing. [[User:Sillyfolkboy|Sillyfolkboy]]<small> ([[User talk:Sillyfolkboy#top|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Sillyfolkboy|edits]])</small>''[[User:Sillyfolkboy/A|<sup style="color:#0B7C08;">Join WikiProject Athletics!</sup>]]'' 18:37, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

== Request for purge link ==

I think the purge link will be fairly useful because many templates require [[help:purge|purging]] either the template page or the article transcludes to make the revision effective. -- [[User:Sameboat|Sameboat - 同舟]] ([[User talk:Sameboat|talk]]) 01:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

== Removal of the whitespaces outside of this template ==

I notice that this template add 1 whitespaces before and after the links. I want them to be removed so we have more flexibility to alternate the display style. For example I wanna include the v.d.e links inside a brackets but the whitespaces will make it looks inconsistent with the collapsible button in most infobox templates which does not have whitespaces inbetween. (By comparing <small>[show] / [hide]</small> to <small>[</small>{{v|d|e|template={{PAGENAME}}}}<small>]</small>). Thanks for your attention. -- [[User:Sameboat|Sameboat - 同舟]] ([[User talk:Sameboat|talk]]) 01:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

== Protected edit request on 12 May 2014 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:V|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
* Please copy all code from /sandbox into live template.
* Change: shows letter "t" for talk link, not "d" any more. And accepts "t" too (next to maintained "d") as parameter input to show & link "t".
* See testcases. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 11:55, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
<!-- End request -->
:I support the adding of the 't' option because it may be easier for some people to remember, I oppose changing the letter of the link from '''d'''iscuss this template to '''t''' because d = discuss and is more clear than t = discuss.  So, you'll need a consensus for that part of the request, {{U|DePiep}}.  If there is no administrator interested in making this partial change to this template, I would be happy to fix up the sandbox and make the change if the protection level can be lowered to {{TE}} and it is not cascaded.  Thanks. — <span class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125;</span> <sup>([[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup> 15:46, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
:[[File:Gold check mark.svg|20px|link=]] '''Partly done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> Okay, so since the protection level on this template was lowered to {{TE}}, I've tested the modifications in the sandbox and testcases page.  The template will now accept "t" too, but will still display "d" for discuss this template as I mentioned above.  Changing that will require some discussion and a consensus as I oppose changing it so 't' means discussion. — <span class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125;</span> <sup>([[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup> 16:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
:::{{u|Technical 13}} I oppose a partial change, so no consensus for that.
:::As for "t": see {{tl|navbar}} (7.5M). -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 17:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
:[[File:Edit-undo.svg|20px|link=]] '''Undone:''' This request ''(or the completed portion of it)'' has been undone.<!-- Template:ETp --> Okay then, since I oppose the full change, then this can sit as undone.  Oh well. — <span class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125;</span> <sup>([[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup> 19:51, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
:::I don't get this. First you declare it without consenst, and then you make other changes without consent? Anyway, back to my original point: make the template follow {navbar}. Even including title text. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
:::::{{@|Technical 13}} Twice here, and of course in my sandbox code, I have proposed to make this one parallel with {{tl|navbar}}. Why did you not respond to that? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 22:19, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
:::::* {{U|DePiep|DP}}, I was unaware that there was further discussion as you did not ping me.  The easiest way to ping me is to copy the template appearing section of my signature into the message and make sure to sign.  {{Tl|@}} is not a pinging template (it is designed to be able to post an email address on the page with a lesser chance of a bot scrapping that information and spamming the email address like Example{{Tld|@}}foo.bar which gives you Example{{@}}foo.bar. As for your other question, I've not looked at navbar and have no idea what is in it right now.  I'm getting ready to go to school, but I do promise to have a peak and give you my thoughts on the matter before we move forward.  I'm also currently testing a performance enhancement in the sandbox for this template, just to give you a heads up. :) — <span class="nowrap">&#123;&#123;U&#124;[[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]]&#125;&#125;</span> <sup>([[User talk:Technical 13|t]] • [[Special:EmailUser/Technical 13|e]] • [[Special:Contribs/Technical 13|c]])</sup> 11:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
:::::::I'm sorry I/it did not ping you; it clearly was my intention to do. Did not know this difference with {U} and {ping}. Will not repeat it, thanks for pointing (I also learned recently that one must ping-and-sign in one same edit save!).
:::::::Below I've added more explanation on {navbar}. If you still disagree, I suggest you reply that (while keeping the change in place).
:::::::More changes (like your middot experiment in /sandbox) I have no time to dive in to. Except maybe to note that you could take ideas & guidance from {{tl|navbar}}. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 05:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

===Use "t" for talk, not "d"===
Discussion above did not have follow up. 

Changed the code to show "'''t'''" for talk, instead of "d" (from 'discuss'). This is in line with {{tl|navbar}} (which has 7.5M treansclusions). Still kept the title text (mousehover text) to be "discuss this template", as {navbar} has. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:V&diff=609495996&oldid=608248661] -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 08:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
:Adding: {{tl|navbar}} shows these links as: 
::<code>view - talk - edit</code> or {{sc|1=<code>V - T - E</code>}}
:{{tl|v}} and {{tl|view}} show these links as:
::<code>view - talk - edit</code> or <code>v - ? - e</code>
:As for the "title", compare the mousehoover text. 
:-[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 05:05, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

::I just saw this, I and have to oppose using a small "t" for display, as it is too small to click on. Navbar solves this by using small-capital display, which is not the case here and is harder to build in, because the word-form should not display in small-caps.
::Also, the entities are not impacting performance; that would be the truckload of parser function. Perhaps a better solution is to LUAfy this template? <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#008"><i>E</i>dokter</span>]] ([[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#080">talk</span>]]) — </span> 11:16, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
:::What would be the guideline that concludes "too small"? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 16:03, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
:::I saw the elaborate code, but that should not prevent these changes. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 16:05, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
:::And, what is the "not universal" thing about using thinspace entities?
::::There is none, but anything wider then 2 pixels would suffice. The "not universal" applies to the {{mono|&amp;thinsp;}} entity, which has always been plagued with poor support, so don't use those. I already have an alternate solution in the sandbox, have a look. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#008"><i>E</i>dokter</span>]] ([[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#080">talk</span>]]) — </span> 16:13, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
::::::I saw the sandbox, and of course that is a route to follow. I already said we'd best follow {navbar}. I'll leave it to you to move it to live. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 17:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
:{{od}} {{U|Edokter}}, any blocking reasons found? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 21:01, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
::No, just forgot. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#008"><i>E</i>dokter</span>]] ([[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#080">talk</span>]]) — </span> 21:42, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

===What is this "thinspace"about? ===
{{U|Edokter}}. Above you pointed to <code>&amp;thinsp;</code> being a bad thing. That must be {{unichar|2009|thin space|n=Thin space|html=}} then.

Could you link or point to some talks about these issues? It reads like a browser-dependent problem, but it could be outdated. Just some hints will do, this is not the place to rewrite an existing knowledge essay (I can also put this question at VPT, but asking you first in kindness). 

In editing, I would like to use it. Like for [[Iodine|I]]. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:48, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

:Older browsers/OSs may shown tofu for these characters, because <kbd>&amp;thinsp;</kbd> is relatively new. I generally like to avoid exotic Unicode where standard characters (or CSS) will suffice. <code style="border:1px solid #ddd;white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]}}</code> 20:56, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 14 July 2014 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:V|answered=yes}}
8K bytes for something this simple is kinda crazy and produces way more template inclusion than necessary. I've gone ahead and modulized this template to [[Module:Template view]]. The code to replace the current with is on [[Template:V/sandbox]]. The code has been tested to work at [[Template:V/testcases]]. '''If an admin fulfills this, can they also permanently template-protect the module?''' [[User:The Mol Man|mol]][[User talk:The Mol Man|uɐɯ]] 07:48, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:You might like to handle {{tl|view}} too, The Mol Man. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 08:38, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
::I looked at it, and it just calls {{tl|v}}. The testcases page actually includes tests for both templates as well. [[User:The Mol Man|mol]][[User talk:The Mol Man|uɐɯ]] 10:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:::Invoking the module directly saves on level of transclusion. <code style="border:1px solid #ddd;white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]}}</code> 10:12, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
::::Sorry, that makes sense, and I understand. I didn't get any sleep though, so I can't work on the module properly right now. I've decided to deactivate my request for today. I'll look into the module more tomorrow and get the requested change working before asking again. [[User:The Mol Man|mol]][[User talk:The Mol Man|uɐɯ]] 11:55, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::I also need to find out how to pass parameters (and why its not needed in {{tl|v}}). Links are malformed as well, so that needs work too. <code style="border:1px solid #ddd;white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]}}</code> 12:56, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Edokter}} The arguments are passed from the template transclusion, this is facilitated with [[Module:Arguments]]. (Bear with this tired kid) Can you tell me what exactly you mean by malformed links and where? [[User:The Mol Man|mol]][[User talk:The Mol Man|uɐɯ]] 13:00, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::::All the links (excepts view and talk) are in the form of <kbd>.../wiki/[title]?action=edit</kbd>, that doesn't work. They ''should'' be in the form of <kbd>.../w/index.php?title=[title]&action=edit</kbd>. <code style="border:1px solid #ddd;white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]}}</code> 13:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Weird. I don't understand why it's doing that, both are being created with <nowiki>{{fullurl:[title]}}</nowiki>. Interesting, I'll assume that's just a Lua thing (unless someone can tell me otherwise), and I'll rewrite it to use index.php. Maybe it's because I have the url arguments outside of that parser... I actually noticed another fault with my code not directly related to that (I left out Template: prefix. oops!). As I said before, I'm too tired to work on it now, but thanks for noticing these problems. Obviously don't hesitate to point out any other issues, and I'll do my best to have this fixed and working sometime tomorrow. [[User:The Mol Man|mol]][[User talk:The Mol Man|uɐɯ]] 13:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
:{{od}} No rush. I think leaving the action outside the parser function is indeed the problem. <code style="border:1px solid #ddd;white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]}}</code> 14:07, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

== Request to Edit ==

The repetitive code can be moved to a sub template say [[Template:V/item]] with content 
<pre><nowiki>{{#switch: {{{1}}}
|d|t=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[Template talk:{{{template}}}|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;" title="Discuss this template">t</span>]]
|e=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=edit}} <span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#002bb8;" title="Edit this template">e</span>]
|h=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=history}} <span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#002bb8;" title="Template history">h</span>]
|m=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Special:Movepage|target=Template:{{{template}}}}} <span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#002bb8;" title="Move this template">m</span>]
|w=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=watch}} <span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#002bb8;" title="Watch this template">w</span>]
|talk=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[[Template talk:{{{template}}}|<span title="Discuss this template">talk</span>]]
|edit=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=edit}} <span style="color:#002bb8;" title="Edit this template">edit</span>]
|hist=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=history}} <span style="color:#002bb8;" title="Template history">hist</span>]
|move=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Special:Movepage|target=Template:{{{template}}}}} <span style="color:#002bb8;" title="Move this template">move</span>]
|watch=&#32;<b>&middot;</b>&#32;[{{fullurl:Template:{{{template}}}|action=watch}} <span style="color:#002bb8;" title="Watch this template">watch</span>]
}}</nowiki></pre> 

Now the main Template can be simplified as 
<pre><nowiki>
-->{{V/item|{{{1}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--
-->{{V/item|{{{2}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--
-->{{V/item|{{{3}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--
-->{{V/item|{{{4}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--
-->{{V/item|{{{5}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--
-->{{V/item|{{{6}}}|template={{{template}}}}}<!--</nowiki></pre>

Tested and Implemented in [[:ml:Template:V]]. --[[User:Manuspanicker|Manuspanicker]] ([[User talk:Manuspanicker|talk]]) 15:01, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

:Every use of a subtemplate adds to the transclusion depth of a page, which has a maximum. A better solution is to make a LUA module. We already have [[Module:Navbar]], which should be easy enough to modify for this template. <code style="white-space:nowrap">-- [[[[User:Edokter|<span style="color:#006">User:Edokter</span>]]]] {&#123;[[User talk:Edokter|<span style="color:#060">talk</span>]]&#125;}</code> 18:20, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 13 April 2017 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:V|answered=yes}}
Please remove the TFD template, there appears to be no consensus on what to do relative to this important template. Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/81.253.17.128|81.253.17.128]] ([[User talk:81.253.17.128|talk]]) 17:46, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
:If you really feel that the template should be delete, it is suggested that you nominate it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion here]. [[User:Boomer Vial|Boomer Vial]]<sup>[[User talk:Boomer Vial|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Holla! We gonna ball!</span>]]</sup> 17:48, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 13 April 2017 ==
As the last person to respond to my edit request failed to understand it I am reposting it. Can the TFD currently sitting [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AV&type=revision&diff=768820339&oldid=767197806 here] be removed? There has been no consensus on deleting this template. Thank you.

{{edit template-protected|Template:V|answered=yes}}
 [[Special:Contributions/81.253.17.128|81.253.17.128]] ([[User talk:81.253.17.128|talk]]) 19:07, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> Discussion is still ongoing and consensus or lack of such has not been assessed yet. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 20:09, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
::There is not further discussion on this matter for over a month. [[Special:Contributions/82.98.7.198|82.98.7.198]] ([[User talk:82.98.7.198|talk]]) 15:55, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> The discussion has not been closed. Rest assured the tag will be removed at the resolution of the discussion. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 16:29, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

== Template:Vte listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Template:Vte]] and the outcome may involve moving [[Template:V]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 June 26#Template:Vte|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. [[User:Deryck Chan|Deryck]][[User talk:Deryck Chan| C.]] 13:48, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

==Discussion at [[:Template talk:Navbox#For navboxes with custom styling, VTE link underlines don't color properly|Template talk:Navbox §&nbsp;For navboxes with custom styling, VTE link underlines don't color properly]]==
[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Template talk:Navbox#For navboxes with custom styling, VTE link underlines don't color properly|Template talk:Navbox §&nbsp;For navboxes with custom styling, VTE link underlines don't color properly]].  <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 19:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->

== buggy usage ==

I tried to use this at {{tl|Zagreb Assembly (structure)}} and it didn't work, it rendered this:

{{vte|Zagreb Assembly (structure)}}

(Only a "v" is shown".) Is it because of the parentheses or something? --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 14:51, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
:I don't think so; I just tried to update {{t|AR6 SSP table}}, and the results were {{vte|AR6 SSP table}}; I had to switch directly to {{t|navbar}} use. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 11:05, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
::Actually, on second read, I think this template ''is'' working as intended; if {{para|mini|yes}} (according to the /doc) it will only show the [v] unless <code>|t</code> and <code>|e</code> are added, i.e. {{tlp|vte|AR6 SSP table|t|e}} giving {{vte|AR6 SSP table|t|e}}. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 11:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 20 August 2025 ==

{{edit template-protected|Template:VTE|answered=yes}}
Could  just use {{Tl|doc}} so the actual editable doc page is transcluded? Rn it's not. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:32, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:{{re|FaviFake}} {{done}}. It looks like there is existing documentation at [[Template:VTE/doc]] which differs from the documentation that was on the template page itself. Could you compare them and ensure that the most up-to-date/best version is being used? (Note that, for wrappers, we want to transclude rather than rewrite documentation to avoid redundancy.) Also courtesy pinging {{u|SWinxy}}, {{u|Primefac}}, and {{u|Joy}}, all of whom have edited the doc previously. Cheers, <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF;text-decoration:inherit;font:1em Lucida Sans">Sdkb</span>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 15:41, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, it does seem to be up-to-date. I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1306943505 added back the OG sentence] from the non-doc page. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:04, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Sdkb|Sdkb]] Oh, nevermind. They should probably both be scrapped because a MUCH better doc is at [[Template:Navbar]]. I'll work again on merging the two with the intent of ignoring VTE's /doc altogether in favour of [[Template:Navbar/doc]]. I'm not sure how the process works, but remember not to leave the sandbox and testcases with the old one, if it isn't done automatically. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:07, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:::Done, merged into [[Template:Navbar/doc#Shortcut_templates]]. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:21, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::::The reason I did [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:VTE&diff=prev&oldid=1030043424 this edit] was to exactly to stop transcluding the entire navbar documentation here, because most of it is off-topic here. If someone looks up what the VTE template does, they need to see exactly that, not have to follow a meandering story to get to that. If there's a way to transclude just that relevant section, and provide a link to the rest, feel free to add that, but don't go back to the previous confusing state. --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 21:04, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::Honestly, I think that edit made things more confusing, at least for me. I don't know what the navbar does or what the parameter "mini" is. This gives me 0 useful info. In comparison, the navbar doc already gives readers  much more information, although i agree it is too cluttered.
:::::I think the solution is not to write a sentece or two and linking to the navbar doc without transcluding it; i think the navbar doc just needs to be polished. The same thing can be said about the navbar template: "If someone looks up what the [NAVBAR] template does, they need to see exactly that, not have to follow a meandering story to get to that."
:::::It also contains important info about the template and other configurations. I do not think the two docs should diverge. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:10, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::If you don't know what navbar does, there is a clear link to read further and learn that. I know that some duplication in documentation can be a good practice, but I don't see how this is one such case. If the reader doesn't understand that a {{tl|navbar}} link in template documentation invites them to click it to know more about what <nowiki>{{navbar}}</nowiki> means, it's hard to say that they are in the right place anyway. How are they going to understand template documentation if they are intimidated by the concept of following blue links? --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 19:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Joy|Joy]] They are not intimidated, they're annoyed. There are two possible options:
:::::::#I open the doc, and find a blurb about a template that's not the one I was looking for, with a parameter that just says "mini". I try to read the rest but it all references that one weird parameter, so I have to click it and I'm presented with the full doc, and I start to read it, what it does, what it is primarily used for, its advantages, etc; or
:::::::#I open the doc and I read what it does, what it is primarily used for, its advantages, etc.
:::::::I'd say the second one is more streamlined.{{tq2|1=If you don't know what navbar does, there is a clear link to read further and learn that.}}Well, I think we should ''expect'' people coming to the doc to not know what it does. Otherwise, why'd they be coming to the doc in the first place? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:38, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I don't understand. This sounds like looking up [[apple]], and then that lead section says it's a red round [[fruit]], and then you have to click through in order to find out what are all the properties of fruits and what redness and roundness truly means in the context of fruits. What is there to get annoyed about? --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 15:41, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::If you're looking up apple, you'll find all the info about apple in the article. But if look up this template, you won't find all the info. It's as if you were looking up apple juice, but it's just a super-short summary of another page, and to understand ''anything about the summary'', you're required to read the page for apple first, which also explains [[apple juice]] in more detail and in simpler terms.{{pb}}Have eyou read the new doc for navbar? I've added the easy examples from this page and I could do a redesign if you want, but I really don't understand what's the benefit of hidng every info a user comes to this templates' doc to read. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:51, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Okay, I see that it can be too concise. I still wouldn't squash it totally, rather explain this context better here. --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 20:55, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::If you want to try and copy over info I don't mind, but I really think this effort is not necessary given that all the info is ''already'' on the other doc.{{pb}}I suspect this will remain incomplete for many years unless the /doc target is changed to {{tl|navbar}}'s. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:55, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::There's no need to copy if we can simply transclude the relevant section, see below. --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 16:23, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{outdent|6}} Hmm, I'm not sure transcluding just one section is enough, because some of the relevant context (in the beginning, for example) is still lost. @[[User:Sdkb|Sdkb]] would it be possible to add noinclude tags to the navbar doc that only hide the content when transcluded on VTE's template page? This way, we could remove only specific sections or parts of a section. (This is still unnecessary, imo, but I'm trying to reach a compromise.) [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 11:46, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, you could use [[WP:NOINCLUDE]] for that. <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF;text-decoration:inherit;font:1em Lucida Sans">Sdkb</span>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 15:49, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::::It would be better to use [[WP:LST|LST]] given that a {{tag|noinclude|open}} pair would also prevent the content from showing up on {{t|navbar}} itself. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 21:22, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::Without commenting on the desirability one way or the other, @[[User:Joy|Joy]], it is very possible to transclude just one section. See [[WP:Transclusion#Standard section transclusion]]. Cheers, <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF;text-decoration:inherit;font:1em Lucida Sans">Sdkb</span>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 16:42, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
::::::Right, I remember seeing that exists (though not a lot of examples). Maybe this would be a nice use case. --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 20:56, 24 August 2025 (UTC)